Interchange Counseling Institute

What an endlessly wonderful experience this was. I went in skeptical, came out super happy with the program. Wonderful leaders, excellent material, and so many new incredible friends.
I learned so much about being able to listen to others, and about my capacity to heal.
Cannot recommend enough.

Interchange is to me, three components of a total experience:
1. The leadership team of Steve, leaders, assistants and allies
2. The Interchange curriculum/​program
3. The IC community
1. The leadership team: fantastic =)
It’s a real honor and pleasure to be surrounded by so many talented and engaged leaders… people that are up to deeply meaningful and uplifting work in their own lives, giving you 100% each weekend for your benefit. I got as much from a few single sessions with leaders as I did from the program as a whole. Having access to such master practitioners stands on its own as worth the pricetag.
Now to Steve… Steve is a masterful facilitator; a brilliant mind, a big heart, and an insatiable curiosity (mischievousness?) for discovering what will really do the trick for each individual and each situation. Steve was a pleasure to be around, both as a master counselor, and as an example of someone deeply dedicated to the process of being a fully integrated human.
2. The curriculum: in awe
I fancy myself a meta-​structuralist and competent curriculum builder, and yet from day one, I found myself deeply struck by the potency, accessibility and brilliance of IC’s program design. I often felt in awe of the scope and vision of the curriculum as a whole, and thoroughly enjoyed how each lesson or teaching model evolved into the next.
The curriculum design takes into account the various ways we each learn-​lecture, experiential, dialogue, small groups, big group, outside the weekend, etc.), and I was satisfied to find an effective balance of each.
One smaller (but not less valuable) note: Steve and the crew have made great efforts to create an online headquarters for all things IC, and I came to appreciate this aspect of the program very much.
3. The community: I’m in love
Bonded for life– that is how I would describe some of the relationships I now have through IC. In honesty, out of the 170-​ish people in my program, I only deeply connected with 15 – 20; and yet each of these connections has truly changed my life for the better. To go through a transformative journey sharing such transparency and vulnerability with others is something I believe we are all deeply longing for, yet rarely have the boldness and opportunity to create. IC gives us this opportunity every weekend, offering innumerable potential connections.
The other thing I will trumpet about IC’s community is its diversity. Programs like to say they have diversity, but IC is leaps and bounds over any other program I know about. Name a demographic variable, and it’s probably well-​represented: age, race, creed, sexual identity/​orientation, career, income, geography, education… a truly rich community where diversity is a primary piece of the magic.
Whew, a lot to share here, and honestly, this is really just the tip of the iceberg. If you’re wondering, just attend one of the free seminars and see for yourself.
Now, why 4 instead of 5 stars? Personally I would have liked better handling/​fuller development of a few of the modules, specifically around shamanism.
But that’s the great thing about IC: it’s always seeking to better itself. It really takes feedback seriously, and prioritizes growing its reach without compromising its integrity.
Bottom line: IC is a fantastic experience that has truly upgraded my life in so many ways. I felt it over-​delivered on its promises and that I fully got my money’s worth. I would definitely make this choice again (and I just may!).
Oh, and a quick note about the two 1-​star reviews that spoke to scams/​unsafe places/etc…Knowing what I know of Steve, the senior leadership and the program as a whole, I believe these experiences to be anomalies that are potentially more about mis-​understandings than anything. IC is definitely not a scam, and while the creation of ‘safe places’ can never be guaranteed, IC goes above and beyond in its efforts to create safe and supportive experiences for its participants. ‘Nuff said.

I’m so incredibly grateful for Interchange, Steve, Margo, Ash, and the whole community that makes this program happen. I have so many reasons to be grateful.
I came into Interchange struggling to share conscious emotional space with my husband, depressed about my career, and generally very guarded and unwilling to show broadly my vulnerabilities, to stand in humility, powerfully accepting my own shortcomings.
Three years of Interchange transformed how I engage with my husband intimately, giving me more access to more care and loving with him; through my experiences and process in Interchange I quit my unfulfilling job, launched two businesses, and got accepted to a top Bay Area master’s program in clinical psychology; and in my day-​to-​day I radically changed the way I hold human interaction, being more honest, more caring and aware of others, and more willing to show emotion with people I have just met – all changing what is possible in my practice and choice to have polyamorous romantic relationships, and in my ability to teach and coach in open relationship spaces with truthfulness and compassion.
I came to Interchange pretty awesome, already – but with some real challenges. I came willing to be changed, maybe even waiting to be changed. Through my tenure with Interchange, I forgot how to wait to be changed. I became absolutely determined to grow and to take charge of my own life’s powerful potential, determined to change every day, in every available loving, connected moment, and all the moments in between too.

This was truly the best experience of my life.
I entered truly confused about my life’s path and self worth, and after working with Steve, an eloquent and highly skilled teacher and mentor, and all the incredibly open and receptive staff at Interchanged. I left the program emotionally and psychologically prepared to deal with any thing life had in store for me and with a new bounce in my step after shedding years of unneeded baggage. If there where ten stars, Interchange would get it. It’s the best investment in yourself you will ever make!

After several years of skeptically watching my friends and peers complete the Year Long Training, I finally enrolled and am now about to graduate with my Interchange Counseling Certification. I’ve seen my friends’ lives completely change for the better but what really inspired me to enroll was the beneficial effect on people’s families and immediate circles. As a parent, it’s hard for me to really invest in my own personal growth, but seeing the profound positive impact of just one parent in a family gaining the skills and support that Interchange offers, I wanted that! And now I’ve got it. I’ve experienced reparenting, how to effectively heal old hurts and how to listen closely to what others are saying by staying in the present. My household is full to the brim with direct communication, unconditional love and mutual support. And going forward, I belong to a community unlike any I’ve ever experienced. Steve Bearman is such a masterful teacher of counseling and relating. The other students feel like a big extended family of choice. I highly recommend Interchange!

This is an amazing counseling program. Hands down!
This program helped me be a better communicator in so many ways. To facing my own anger, to conflict/​resolution and how to be in a world that in many ways, doesn’t want you to grow and connect.
Is it for everyone? Nope. It’s for people really committed to looking within themselves around conditioning, race, witnessing, love, shame etc. Are you ready to face your true self? Are you ready to be an awesome communicator and counselor? if so, you will love this program.
There are a variety of people that do the program. People who are already therapists, older people, young people, people of color. It helps you get over your «ISMS» like Ageism, sexism etc. It’s helping and teaching you how to really be human. How to really connect. How to look at intimacy in a new light. We all have so many wounds that were put on us, or learned since childhood. This program gives a supportive platform for healing.
My home group still meets every month, now, 2 years later. We STILL Meet up! WE love each other.
I love that this program values and teaches that intimacy can come in ALL forms. If I hold your hand it doesn’t mean I want to have sex with you. If I am listening, and looking deeply into your eyes, It means I CARE. I love, not that I want to get in your pants. I have always been a great resource for my friends and clients around relationships. I am finally ready to see clients, and if it wasn’t for interchange, I would not have the confidence and toned empathy to create this practice. I want to help people figure out how to get the relationships they want!
Is it expensive? Depends on your experience with paying for education. I have lots of loans and this program was the best money I ever spent on my education. For being a 10 month program it’s really not as much as you would think.
So much love for the interchange community! Even though I didn’t connect with everyone on a «friend» level at IC, if I run into someone on the street that was in the program we always give each other a big hug and know we are being REAL.

There are no words to describe the gratitude that I have for this program. But I will try.
I came into the program feeling broken. I had gone through a very painful divorce, and I felt my life was over. I had been a counselor for over 20 years working with eating disorders, and though I had a glimmer of hope that I might get some support in my life, I had no idea how much my counseling would improve. Being a skeptic is my thing. And I was.
Well what’s better to change a skeptic than a complete turn around.
The program delves deep into the process of counseling, and grants permission that challenges old ideas about what makes a good counselor, and what kind of transformation can take place when one learns to take risks, be vulnerable, and get curious. There is an academic edge to this work that provides structure and intelligence to very complex personal issues that people struggle with. The integrity of the leadership is thorough, and the commitment to excellence is obvious.
I recommend the training to anyone who is wanting to break through their own models of limiting thinking in not only what being a counselor is, but more importantly what it means to be a human being.
Interchange is not comparable to any other program. To learn, work on yourself, and build community all at once is a year long gift to anyone who goes, and no where else will you find so much unconditional regard for yourself, and all individuals.
You will come out a better counselor, and more importantly, a better person with more access and tools than you even knew you needed.

I almost didn’t do Interchange mainly because of the financial investment. I’m so grateful that I made the plunge and went with it. Here’s the thing though, because it is an investment (and for me was a pretty big one) I made a list of 10 must do’s which stayed in my notebook throughout the course. My reasoning behind it was, well if I’m going to spend this kind of money then it’s going to be worth it with no regrets. Little did I know, by sticking to those fully that it would increase my experience more than I could have ever imagined. I fought resistance, pushed through the uncomfortable feelings, and let things get emotionally messy… but working through all those is where my growth happened and it was definitely worth it!
I learned that it is ok to…
–cry, express emotion, even when it’s messy and doesn’t make sense
–connect with men, but in reality with all people
–fail, stumble and fuck up
–love the body I was given and to move it
–speak my mind, my truth and not worry about people pleasing
–trust and be vulnerable
–take up space
–ask for what I want or need without fear of rejection or judgement
–give and receive honest feedback
–trust my own intuition (it’s been a powerful force that I’ve fought since I was little)
–love myself
One big thing that has stuck with me that I go back to when I struggle (because life is a constant growing process) is my unanswerable question «when will I stop holding back?». It became so clear through some processing — when I get out of my own damn way (in so many ways that I could probably write a book about how I have patterns of holding myself back).
That question has cracked me open to start living my power. Interchange Counseling Institute moved me into embracing my true self and in exploring more of my purpose in the world. The skills you learn will not only help you with your own relationship with yourself, but any relationship that is in your life now or will cross your path. It gives you skills that can be used no matter if you’re a counselor, coach or in any other occupation. If you want to make a bigger impact in the world, this is the training for you! I’d take this course over and over again every year if I could and know that each time I would learn something new that would enhance my life in more ways than I could put into words. Since taking Interchange I have increased my awareness and the way I experience life is more fulfilling. You will get out if it what you put in, and if it weren’t for those rules I created for myself I don’t know if it would have had the same impact but I do know it would have had an impact regardless… I just intensified it through my rules and am grateful that I did and proud that I stuck by them even when I was cursing myself for creating them.

I went to Interchange as a health coach to learn how to help others heal old wounds, deep patterns that were showing up as food issues and before I knew it, I was experiencing the richest personal transformation of my life.
You see, Interchange is not just a school. It is an experience. You get to apply all that you learn, on yourself and then on the people in the program alongside you. And soon? You are as family.
The second time I did Interchange I came for that reason. My mom passed away unexpectedly, my world got upside down and I could not think of a better place to heal, grieve and restore my life.
At Interchange I have experienced life the fullest, I have been challenged, held, supported, triggered, all in the most accelerated way possible. Don’t get me wrong. This program doesn’t happen TO you. It gives you, like anything else, as much as you are willing to put into it.
And if you are ready for rapid personal growth, getting to know yourself in the most honest, intimate and real way, learn how to really listen and be present with yourself and other people, that leads to some of the deepest friendships you have had in years, develop capacities to create your life in ways you have hoped for, and have a huge community throughout your journey?
This. Is. The. Place.
I am in my third year and I continue to open as a person, grow, peel layers after layers of conditioning, old patterns and fears. Through this program I become the person I fall in love with more and more every day and I continue to develop more skills to help others as a counselor and coach.
I care about people and it fills my heart to be able to support them grow. It’s the best thing I have done for myself in this life and what I learned in Interchange is the best gift I can offer to others.
Andreea Grad

Interchange is a game changer for change-​makers, and our world needs us all to be that at this point in human history.
Interchange is more than a training; it is a 10-​month personal growth workshop and counseling training all in one. An added bonus is developing community and lasting friendships with a diverse group of amazing people who I’ve gotten to know from the inside out, who relate to each other authentically, intimately, and with a strong sense of purpose and conviction to make this world a better place for themselves and others.
I went through the program 2 years in a row. I decided to do it a second time last year because the program is so rich with experience and information, I wanted to absorb more and hone my counseling techniques. The reading list alone will change your life. The second year was definitely worth it, as I took greater risks in my style and with my clients, which led to deeper transformations and connections.
I think my training with Interchange was far more valuable and informative for my professional coaching practice than an accredited coaching program. There are more experiential, in-​person hours and the topics deeper. Having this training has certainly benefited my career as an executive recruiter and coach, in addition to my personal roles as a parent, friend, family and community member.
Anyone can benefit from this training, whether you are doing this for professional reasons or purely for personal growth. I can’t think of a profession that would not benefit from it: professional coach or therapist, teacher or social worker, corporate team manager or human resources director, health professional, parent, child-​care worker or minister. In this program I met many licensed therapists, psychologists and so on who said this training gave them more counseling skill than their Master’s or PhD program. I felt honored to be among a group of such intelligent, compassionate, highly talented, diverse, creative, and accomplished people with a similar mission as me.
I’d like to say that this program is for everyone, but I don’t think so. It’s a confronting path to look at your limiting beliefs and stay committed and compassionate while opening your heart ever wider, and allowing others to see you in your glory and vulnerability. Not everyone is ready to do that in a large room with other people. I can completely understand. Yet most of the people who enter the program complete it, find support they need, have major breakthroughs along the way, and are happy they did it. It’s best to go to an Intro evening, read Steve Bearman’s blog and watch some of the videos and testimonials online to get a feel if it’s for you. It’s a big commitment for 10 months.
I have been in other growth programs in the Bay Area and think this is clearly in the top tier. It is also less expensive than most. It’s interesting to go to other quality workshops and meet current and past Interchangers naturally sharing their amazing experiences (this just happened for me last weekend). IC’s marketing is word of mouth. Just about everywhere conscious people congregate in the Bay Area, you will find a buzz of Interchangers raving about their experiences.
I love Steve, his mission and what he’s developed in 11 years. He’s the real deal.
Thank you Steve, Margo and team.
Best to all,
Deborah Dols

What if I discovered a new way of living that brought a deep sense of purpose, unconditional love, an abiding sense of safety, self-​acceptance, access to deeper intimacy, and effective tools for counteracting the pernicious effects of racism, sexism, addiction, jealousy and shame on our society, and what if I could figure out how to package that in a course that taught the world how to live this way? That is, essentially, what Steve Bearman has done with Interchange Counseling.
Steve teaches counseling, not just as a possible career path, but as a way of life, as the foundation for a new sort of community. «Friendship 2.0,» where every conversation is infused with an enlivening sense of caring and curiosity; where it is possible to feel seen, understood, and celebrated for our uniqueness, and do the same for others, with every conversation and human interaction; where the full breadth of our humanity is celebrated, rather than fixed, tolerated or kept hidden.
With his deeply compassionate understanding of the human condition, Steve creates a safe container for exploring the potential for deeper connectedness in all our relationships. With intellectual rigor, and a wealth of teaching experience, Steve presents pragmatic tool-​set of avant-​guard counseling techniques in a manner accessible to all. With captivating skill, and a playful sense of humor, he successfully demonstrates each technique live, in front of an astonished class, for volunteers with real-​life issues.
But, don’t take my word for it. Go to the website and watch some of Steve’s eloquent video blog, offered free to the world, and see if it adds value to your life. Here are some of my favorites:
This is the real deal. «Change yourself. Change the world.» indeed.

This program is more than you’ll know to ask for. What I received is a healthy dose of psychological concepts and theories combined with practical applications useful on my business as well as my personal life. Then, there’s the Interchange community. The group of people that comes together for the intensive 10-​month journey is amazing. Committed. Intensely engaged. Fun. Inspiring. You will be so grateful you read this review, checked out every page of the website, watched Steve Bearman’s videos, and, well, signed up for the time of your life. Then you get to be part of the graduate community. Social networking has nothing on this quality of connection and community based support. (Ps, I’m rarely this enthusiastic about a program. This one simply rocks).

If any of you have read Malcolm Gladwell, then you will understand that I believe that the Interchange Counseling Institute is an outlier. It stands on its own, and has come to us at the right time. If only it could be in multiple places at once.
The skills that the psychologists of the world learn are not just the skills to have a clientele that they can help with their problems. The field of psychology trains professionals to listen, to hear, to understand, to acknowledge, to deepen… to love the person right in front of you. There is virtually no formal training in our culture on how to do this.
But psychologists get this training.
And not everybody wants to dedicate their lives to becoming a psychologist.
The Interchange Counseling Institute, in its «brief» 10 month program, gives each and every one of us, with layman’s-terms-training, the ability to learn these skills.
So who needs this? Everybody.
There is not a person I can think of that could not benefit from this training.
Marriage and Family Therapists are often too isolated in their careers. They benefit from such a community of mutually supportive people learning these skills. The isolation ends inside this community.
Psychologists with PhDs have spent so much time in research and clinical studies, that they often miss the human connection part. Interchange Counseling Institute will be good for them, and help them bring all their intellectual insight into their hearts.
Coaches who spend tons of time in their thinking minds now have the opportunity to learn these «behind closed doors» counseling skills that often take years to learn. Interchange teaches the most effective training to learn to support people, and to thrive in your own relationships. Because at Interchange you build relationships. All year long. You can’t hide. People love you in spite of yourself.
And the rest of the people, that do all the other important jobs in this world… they benefit from being around all the love. They make lifelong friendships. Love here is not about quantity of time. It is about quality. And when you make 20 appointments throughout the year to sit down and trade an hour each, back and forth, to listen to each other, and help each other heal — well, that’s quite a way to spend an evening.
Sign up. And on the first weekend you are walking around the room making eye contact with people, thinking about the idea of what it would be like to fall in love with everybody you meet. And either you, or somebody you make eye contact with, will have tears coming down their face. Because we don’t stop and look at each other enough. One of your newest, bestest friends will be in the room. You don’t have to look for them. They will find you.
Derek Hart
San Anselmo, CA

What can I say about Interchange Counseling? It could as easily be called Innerchange, as that was exactly what I received.
It has been a whopping 2 years since I took this course. The education and continued support are present in my life even now. So often we choose an education and the only real thing left of it years later is the student loan payment. Not the case with this education.
In all honesty – about half way through this year long course – I dropped the idea that I was educating myself so that I could DO more for others (somatic therapy was my career at the time). I found that I was BE-​coming something greater then I could have imagined for myself.
Interchange was the first place that I ever felt truly safe to do the deep work of exploring all the edges that I was afraid of showing in the world. As any therapist knows, we become therapists because, «You teach most what you need to learn.» Interchange allowed me a safe space to show up without the show of strength and perfection that people mistakenly think therapists have naturally. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble in letting the truth out… YOUR THERAPIST IS HUMAN.
What I gained in my year at Interchange was not only the resources of self that allow me to function in this world as the healer that I am, but also an ongoing community of friends and colleges that I can count on to be there for me in all ways.
Interchange will expand who you are, from the inside out. I have spent I dont know how many dollars on education; I really would rather not recount. This was the smartest $ 5000 I have ever spent. The resources I came away from this time with are never ending.

Interchange Counseling Institute was so good that I did it twice. Is it expensive? Yes? Is it perfect? Probably not. Was it one of the most important educational experiences of my adult life? You bet.
From Interchange I got a top-​notch experiential counseling training. I learned to support others skillfully while also learning more about my own emotional landscape. I actually became more supportable as a result of this 10 month course.
I also got to do my learning with an incredible community of people who were also committed to service and growth. I made so many wonderful friends during my two years in Interchange, a number of whom I’m still quite close with.
One of the things that differentiates Interchange from other such programs is the way it incorporates deep exploration of conditioning and oppression. All of the work taken up the first seven months of the year lead inexorably to the conclusion that counseling can be a liberatory practice, a way of getting and staying free. As a black person who works as an organizer, this was incredible. It left me better resourced to do my work in the world, and with a more nuanced understanding of how experiences of oppression can be internalized and wreak emotional havok — no matter how liberated one thinks one is. It adds a sorely needed lens to the world of counseling, therapy, and coaching.
There are some personal growth programs (and Interchange’s leaders are clear that it is a counseling training in which personal growth can happen, and not first and foremost a self-​centered personal growth program) that aggressively encourage students to recruit their friends and loved ones. Interchange has been successful because it’s so good that people spontaneously and joyfully share about their experiences with their communities.
I recommend Interchange with no hesitation whatsoever.

I think this place is a scam. I was very interested in learning more about the program, which led me to email an inquiry to learn more about the school and heard nothing in return. Then, I signed up for a phone meeting with an «admissions counselor» via their online portal. I received an automated confirmation in my inbox letting me know that the meeting was scheduled and that my admissions counselor would call me at the agreed upon time (monday ¹²⁄₂₂). On Monday I never heard from anyone at Interchange. No one called me. I waiting for twenty minutes and then called the «Admissions Office», which rang and rang and rang for forever before a tinny and echoey (i.e. non professional) voicemail came on. I left a detailed message asking for someone to call me back because I am very interested in learning more. I also said that I was very frustrated that no one had returned my emails or phone calls.
I then emailed Interchange at their general and admissions email addresses and have still, to this day, never received ANY reply. And, their website is not up to date, which is one reason I had for calling to inquire about the 2016 session and the next orientation session.
I have to say: I am nothing but turned off and disappointed by this counseling institute. How can one value this organization, which aims to teach others how to counsel and communicate effectively, when those who run it are incapable of communicating with prospective students?
It’s nothing but ludicrous, if you ask me.

WOMEN BE CAREFUL HERE!!! I went to an intro class 2 weeks ago. A man in the group spoke to me in an aggressive fashion. I called Steve Bearman to see if we could discuss a strategy for getting my needs for safety as a woman, as a lesbian met if I where to attend the yearlong. He told me that what I perceived as a sexist statement, other women, other feminist would not find offensive. That if I attended his program I could heal myself from being triggered by «unaware, unintentional sexism which is always going to exist» Way to blame the victim! Way to tell a woman what is or is NOT sexism. He proceeded to tell me of all his studies on sexism and even a book on the topic. Doth he protest too much? If a person of color tells me something I’ve said is racist, I do not proceed to tell them it is not, instead I thank them for giving me a chance to change and become a more aware white person of privilege. Sexism is the same, if a woman or a man shares with you something that feels hurtful in an oppressive dominant culture kind of a way LISTEN, LEARN and thank them. Steve did not listen and told me my problem could be healed. EEKS me think not is an understatement!

Interchange is a yearlong counseling and coaching training program that offers a unique opportunity to work on yourself while you learn to skillfully support others. It is a community-​rich learning environment for people who want to become powerful counselors and coaches, and for people who want to grow in their own lives.
I can attest to these words from the Interchange website. I’ve done a lot of work on myself over the years and participated in many trainings and seminars and I can genuinely say that Interchange is in a class by itself. It is taught by the incomparable Steve Bearman who is a master teacher and consummate counselor. You can get a feel for what he’s like by checking out any of the numerous videos on the Interchange Blog:
. Steve brings a depth of knowledge, experience, insight and compassion that is impressive. His engaging style of teaching along with his sense-​of-​humor, authenticity and warmth make him a pleasure to listen to. Although his depth of knowledge is drawn to a large degree from his wealth of experience, he is also extremely learned about a multitude of different psychological systems and theories. You can see his credentials here:
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Of course, it’s not a one man show, although it wouldn’t be Interchange without Steve! There are many other excellent counselors and facilitators on the staff which help to make Interchange the warm and supportive environment that it is. I’m in my 4^th month of Interchange and I’m very happy with the curriculum so far. We meet as a group once a month over a weekend at Fort Mason. The large group of around 140 — 150 is subdivided into around 6 smaller groups. Our time is divided between the large group, our smaller home group and impromptu groups of anywhere from 2 – 5 people. In between our scheduled weekends we’re encouraged to reach out to our fellow participants to schedule sessions with one another. A typical session involves both counseling and being counseled. Having done many of these one-​on-​one sessions, I’m impressed with what an effective model this is for learning the skills of counseling. Not only is it an opportunity to observe different counseling styles but it is also an opportunity to try out different intentions, techniques and creative interventions.
All of this interpersonal experience is supplemented by some amazing books from an excellent reading list which you can see here:
. This is also a good place to see how each weekend breaks down and what is covered. In addition to the dozen books which we are given at our first weekend, there are numerous other suggested titles which I’ve found very helpful. Being a bookish sort myself, I compiled a list of the books which are available in other formats such as audio and eBooks. If you decide this program is for you, you can get a jump on the reading by obtaining some of the books here:
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Although this review is overwhelmingly positive I do have one caveat. The space where we are meeting at Fort Mason (at the time that this review was written) is adequate but could be better. On the positive side, there are large windows that let in the natural light (which I personally love). The space works well when we are unified as one large group. But on the negative side, things can get pretty noisy at times when we break into small groups. Although there are a couple of adjacent rooms which two of the small groups can retreat to, which helps a bit to keep the noise down in the main room, the level in the main room can still get pretty high, making it difficult to hear at times.
Whether you enroll in Interchange for your own personal development or to learn counseling and coaching, I can’t imagine not getting something of great value from this terrific program!